. said:

programming is boring as fuck anyway

mr the horse said:

Yup. Can't believe some people do this shit for a living.

sh. said:

Is it your first attempt at learning a programming language?

Pointers...

. said:

objective c is a horrible language.

mr the horse said:

No. I learned x86 assembly and C back at college and did Java, Pascal (?!?) and functional programming using Miranda (?!?) in first year CS at university. I also used to do stuff in C using OpenGL as a hobby. All far more intuitive than Objective C's mash-up of C and Smalltalk-style object oriented faggotry.

I am amazed...some of the shit I've seen you post would never have made me suspect you knew any of that shit.

x86 assembly was more intuitive than this?

. said:

even noob friendly languages like Python make me want to go to sleep

I managed to make a Punnett square solver after some time with a manual, but that's about it

I don't get much pleasure out of it

. said:

I tried learning Obj C and cocoa for making iphone apps and gave up after a few days

there may be an opportunity here for something like hypercard for smart phones

sh. said:

I am amazed...some of the shit I've seen you post would never have made me suspect you knew any of that shit.

x86 assembly was more intuitive than this?

mr the horse said:

I think people should start with low-level languages. Computers work in a way that makes sense. They're physical devices and people are good at reasoning about physical devices. Low-level languages reflect that. High-level languages reflect some crazed idiots idea about how people should solve problems that has then been shoehorned into the realities of how computers work. The result is a hybrid of brain-smashing gibberish. The higher level the language the more of a pain in the ass it is.

I played around with C and it wasn't that different. Seemed more cryptic with the syntax and lacked handy things such as dictionaries from Python. Maybe it's just me.

. said:

Is it the Objective-C that the problem, or memory management?

. said:

Do you have the Hillegass book?

Yeah. I was working through it. But now I've decided to just get OpenGL up and running and work inside that, since I have some experience with it. It's coming along okay but there's just something about Objective C that I find profoundly annoying.

mr the horse said:

Objective C. It's just ugly and confusing.

. said:

One more thing… I've found that the API library is migraine inducing since the learning curve is fairly steep. Sometimes, simply finding the right way to do something can take a day.

. said:

Spend some time working on entering the code with some formatting you like. You'll find the code to be less ugly & you should find the code to be more readable in an English-like way.

You may also want to spend the $5 for XCode 4. Even though XCode 4 has problems of its own, you may find the XCode 4 environment to be more flulid, which will lower your stress in trying to learn this shit.